Meteor Swarm Math Problem(Math Masters Welcomed)

Comments

• Peppermaster

  November 2016

  After some fiddling with Dark, I've found that even if you have a secondary with only 1 mana cost(ember with +1 mana lets say), the mana cost for meteor swarm skyrockets greatly. (144.6 mana per second for 1 boulder(12), 1 fireball(12), and 1 ember with +1 mana cost) Unless Mr Raptis deals with the how mana cost works for meteor swarm, Mana problem for meteor swarm cannot be fixed.
• ZedTheRed

  November 2016

  Or you could edit the text file yourself, right? I'm fairly certain that Raptis said the folders for skills and items are unencrypted.
• Peppermaster

  November 2016 edited November 2016

  @ZedTheRed

  
  

  Unfortunately, there is no text file for welded spell.

  I've tried to make the meteor swarm cost less by lowering the cost of sub class spells(which are uncrypted) to 1 mana but it still increases mana cost exponentially.( you can see my attempt at the comment above)

  Because welded spells are in the encrypted part of Solomon Dark, we are pretty much stuck with this ridiculous mana cost for Meteor Swarm until Hoggy 2 is finished.
• xglsuperbounce

  November 2016

  You are stuck with it forever, he will be working on Solomon's Keep. I'd rather him work on that and get everything working there instead of working on Dark, which won't ever be released
• Peppermaster

  November 2016 edited November 2016

  or at least he can uncrypt welded spell part while he make the dark cloud available (he said he will make dark cloud available at least).
  
• ZedTheRed

  November 2016

  Ah. Well, that sucks. I'd definitely prefer Raptis work on things that will make him money.
• ShadowKnight

  November 2016

  I will work on encrypting.it. most of the encryptions he uses are standard so. wont be till monday though unless Anyone can send me just those files unziped
• Peppermaster

  November 2016

  @ShadowKnight 

  Thanks. 

  :x
• xglsuperbounce

  November 2016

  it's not that simple. they are calculated at runtime, not from a file.

  Best way of this I can think of is use some program to disassemble and just try to figure out what function is creating the new spell. I have nearly 0 experience with that so I'll let someone else try it out. I've only ever modified the save files to give myself OP rings on the original boneyard :D
• ovarer

  November 2016

  2 spells: sum of mana cost * 5/4

  3 spells: sum of mana cost * 45/8

  6 spells: sum of mana cost * 64/7

  
  

  can you have, lets say, 4 or 5 spells welded?

  but i think the only thing you can do is to minimize cost of subspells as the function depends mostly on number of spells welded
• Peppermaster

  November 2016 edited November 2016

  @ovarer

  
  

  Welding is combining 2 primary spells and 2 secondary spells of each primary spells (4 spells total).

  If what 4 spells 5 spells include both primary and secondary spells, then yes it is possible (I might have forgotten to experiment with that combination). 

  
  

  Sadly, I think you are right. My dreams and hopes for making meteor swarm with all two primary and four secondary spells unlocked viable are gone. OTL 
• ovarer

  November 2016

  Or you can try to modify mana recovery skills to cover up the cost?
• Peppermaster

  November 2016

  @ovarer

  
  

  Here is the problem: Meteor Swarm is the only primary or welded spell that has tremendous mana cost. Even Flame Lash, infamous for its high but reasonable mana cost, cost 30~50 mana per sec when you have all sub skills for the primary. As you know, 30 ~50 mana per sec is no near from 294.4 mana per sec. If I am going to raise mana recovery enough to make meteor swarm viable, every other skill will have literally no mana cost (even secondary skills, which cost about 50~ 100 mana, will not cost a single mana). 

  
  

  Then is it worth it to buff mana recovery to make meteor swarm viable? Not really. Because of the long delay and randomized attack, it is very difficult to even hit a skeleton with 1 hp. To make this attack more accurate, you need to put some skill points on the sub skills, which, as you seen, will exponentially increase the mana cost.

  
  

  Meteor Swarm is currently an incomplete mess in both its function and its mana cost (Of course I know Mr. Raptis had no time to make everything in Solomon Dark perfect). If we could fiddle around with the mana cost of it, maybe it could be more viable and more fun to play with. Well, until something happens, I guess earth and fire combo would be a horrible idea. 
• xglsuperbounce

  November 2016

  Well I mean, is it worth it in terms of damage?
• Peppermaster

  November 2016

  @xglsuperbounce

  
  

  In terms of damage, it is powerful but inconsistent (8~20 per impact when both primary skills are level 1(fireball 4 damage; boulder 10 damage)). Even if it deals 20 damage per impact always, it is still very difficult to hit what you want to hit, which means its real dps is significantly lower than what you expect and you might die by a bare handed skeleton with no armor and 4 hp because ur powerful meteor just does not land at that skeleton (it's a little exaggeration but it could happen if that skeleton was a spider).
• ShadowKnight

  November 2016

  so I broke into the exe but... i dont have the resources to look at it... if raptisoft.... released the file before it gets turned into a exe or if he told us what program he uses to make it, I could do it. 
• ShadowKnight

  November 2016

  my next best bet is make a item that changes it in some way... like you can have a ring that reduces the cost...
• Peppermaster

  November 2016

  @ShadowKnight

  
  

  Thank you for the attempt.

  Item change will be difficult. It is impossible to change just a single spell's mana cost by using items(specific class of spells is possible but... ...meteor swarm is not considered to be in either fire or earth, in fact anywhere.). If we are going to reduce the cost for meteor swarm, we have to reduce all the other spell's mana cost which have reasonable mana cost. Also, unless playing custom map, it is impossible to get a specific item when a player wants to. So... ... I guess we should pretend meteor swarm does not exist (Unless we make Custom Solomon Dark just for Meteor Swarm fans).

  
  
• xglsuperbounce

  November 2016

  Have you considered that Meteor Swarm is only supposed to be used as AoE? Switching from something to that when theres a ton of enemies. Damage/Mana goes way up when theres more enemies it hits.
• Peppermaster

  November 2016

  @xglsuperbounce

  
  

  Have you ever tried Meteor Swarm?

  
  

  Mana cost for Meteor Swarm is way higher than what it should be. This is the only skill that reaches above 100 mana per second when all main and sub skills are level 1! I don't think you understand how unreasonably high that mana cost. If we look at other massive aoe skills like frost jet, steam jet, blizzard beam, etc., You would never see a skill that has mana cost higher than 100 mana per second on level 1 with all  sub skills unlocked. Also, mana cost higher than 100 mana per second will deplete your mana within 1 second. 

  
  

  You are saying that meteor swarm is only for aoe and players are suppose to switch between meteor swarm and other primary skills. You are on the right track. Here are the problems:  

  
  

  1. Meteor Swarm is very weak in close combat and against fast enemies. 

  2. Other aoe spells either don't have that problem or can deal with those kinds of situation way better than meteor swarm can. 

  3. Other aoe spells does not need to be switched  just because the attack never lands on a single naked skeleton (Lighting and Flame Lash against coffins may be an exception). 

  4. The damage is not as strong (and reliable) as other aoe spells because of the inconsistency of its damage. 

  5. Meteor Swarm does not hit more enemies than other better aoe spells.

  
  

  The Meteor Swarm is a very unique spell but its efficiency is... ...garbage. Normally, I say Steam Jet is the worst primary spell in the game. Now, Meteor Swarm is the worst spell in the game even when the mana problem is solved because its attacks are very random and it is outclassed by other primary spells.

  
  
• xglsuperbounce

  November 2016

  Yeah I mean I tried it in the beta that was originally released and I had no problems, I haven't played much of the new one since Im in college now and Ive play competitive rocket league (Top 20 teams according to the power rankings a few weeks ago :D Woo!)  

  
  

  Yeah 100/s is a lot. I didn't realize it was so high. 
• Syrion

  November 2016

  On the note of that original beta, was that released publicly here on the forums like this one, or was it for a select few people only? I hadn't heard about that one until recently.
  
  I agree that seemingly the way meteor swarm works right now, it is supposed to be used in conjunction with other spells as it hits only with a delay, unlike any other spell. But, it's hard to tell, as it's not only "garage" right now, it's absolutely not usable at those mana quest. And, as you said, that's for level 1 primaries without subskills only, when you normally wouldn't use Weld at all.
• Peppermaster

  November 2016 edited November 2016

  @Syrion 

  
  

  I don't think it was released publicly(the video below also says that it was a closed beta) but you can actually see and get that version of Solomon Dark from the link below. (provided by pain701)

  
  

  Video of the older solomon dark beta: 

  
  

  Download link of the older solomon dark(by pain701) : https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0qe8ncp526xfuk2/AAB7ONvPRhAc83bmAUXHLx9Fa?dl=0

  
  

  Also, I feel like there should be more spells that synergize with meteor swarm. Magic Circle & Flash Freeze work well with meteor swarm but they won't always come out and there should be other spells that covers the downside of meteor swarm.

  
  

  @xglsuperbounce

  
  

  I've never tried the older version of solomon dark beta but I can tell ,by watching the video footage of older version of solomon dark(29:26 is when meteor swarm shows up), the cost was ridiculously high it was back then like it is right now. 

  
  

  P.S. Keep the good work on competitive rocket league btw :D